Poor Gavin. The guy just can't ever catch a break. Although, I guess "maybe, possibly someday" is infinitely better than "no". Isn't it?
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And now I dislike Gavin more for actually subscribing to the idea of women being slot machines that you have to insert niceness into for opening their legs and that anyone that doesn't fuck you isn't worth your time.
@Pacce: 1) He does think she's worth his time - he still wants to hang out with her
2) Who said anything about sex? He does want to date her, yes, but no one said anything about fucking
3) Both men and women use the term 'friendzone', and it's more about not having romantic feelings then shutting down sexual feelings.
She has a perfectly reasonable plan.
Casual friend dates then actual dates when she knows if he is a decent person or not.
@Pacce: The word 'friendzone' pisses me off as well, because it so often comes with that exact attitude. But a lot of the time, I find that a certain innocent breed of young men actually use the word more as a simple verb with no stigma attached to it than an accusing word to shame women (although many of them end up doing just that in the long run). I don't think Gavin here necessarily holds that attitude, but has probably heard the term and does not understand the weight that it can have behind it.
Maybe she's Demi!!! :D
Oooor maybe I'm projecting. :(
Yeah, I kind of dislike the term 'Friendzone' as well. Can we retire the phrase and all the negative connotations that go with it? It's like the person who is doing the 'friendzoning' is somehow doing the other person a disservice by not sleeping them.
...damn, I just paraphrased Joss Whedon there, didn't I?
@Pacce: Agreeing with Lenn here, For a good number of years "friendzoning" had none of the accusatory meaning that I've seen so much with it recently. I certainly don't think Gavin meant it the way a lot of people seem to-- he may be interested in Anna, but he's also perfectly happy to hang out and be friends and not do any creepy pressuring-type stuff.
It's unfortunate that words have connotations and not just denotations. "Friendzoning" occurs, but that isn't automatically a bad thing. It's an issue of a lack of upfront communication. Person A starts hanging around Person B because they want to go out with Person B, but Person B is unobtainable at that moment (either Person B is in a relationship or not looking for a relationship, or Person A lacks the confidence to actually ask Person B out and instead goes for the slow game). Person B grows to like Person A's friendship during this "buildup phase" that Person A is doing. So when Person A reveals that they want to go further, Person B has already "friendzoned" Person A. Person B doesn't want to change the relationship. Person B has not entertained or developed an attraction for Person A. Person A can go on to be a jerk about it and get mad at Person B, because Person A could be a tool for various reasons, or Person A could simply be disappointed because the method they were trying was simply wrong. Person A is in the wrong here, because they weren't becoming Person B's friend for friendship.
@Pacce: I think you are reading a little too much between lines there o_0. So far Gavin has only demonstrated that he is a good guy.
Granted I didn't know there WERE negative connotations from friendzoning, but SERIOUSLY?
The connotations from the word aside, do we really believe Gavin holds the viewpoint "I was nice to her, so why won't she sleep with me?"
He has plenty of female friends. Yes, he occasionally has fantasies about them but they seem to:
a) mostly exist for humour and
b) embarass him far more than they exite him.
Point being point, while he has occasionally hoped for 'more than friendship', he's never expected it. If anything, bringing up 'friendzoning' here is pretty honest of him. It shows that he is open to the idea of dating without putting pressure on her to make a decision. I mean, would it seriously have been better for the two of them to hang out with Ana blissfully unaware that Gavin was attracted to her?
This is the absolute worst thing about being male-bodied, and the thing that drives my dysphoria up the wall so much that it makes me suicidal.
As a "man", you constantly have to do the first step, constantly face rejection and being treated like a piece of shit, and 98% of young women have a boyfriend at all times anyways.
I wish I wasn't born in this shitty body with this shitty role, I can't behave manly and confident, and I never will.
Too bad transition didn't work out for me...I've been lonely and sexless for over 10 years now...my youth is slowly fading away and I missed out on everything love-related in life....
fuck my useless, wrong life. Being trans sucks ass. Fuck the contraception pill for doing this to my brain (my mom was unnknowingly pregnant and kept taking it).
(And @ any condemning Gavin right now as an irredeemably shallow scumbag...)
I urge you to think back on his character for the past 400+ pages. I mean, this is Gavin we're talking about! Sure, he's a bit of a closet perv, but his loyalty to his friends is supposed to be like his most significant trait.
I mean, the guy dated a lesbian. Not because he thought he was getting anything for it, but because it protected her from being judged by their piers.
He wouldn't even brag about it when Kylie flashed him (for a teenage boy, that can be a rare trait). He promised he wouldn't tell anyone, and he hasn't.
I know I should just let the story do the talking, but this page just created a lot venom for Gavin that I don't feel is deserved. That's probably my fault. I know the word's connotation and all, but I really didn't expect this. It was kinda meant to be a joke... >_>
So, um... sorry for my failing to make that clearer.
Communication and language change over time. There are actually a few different perceptions of the term "friendzone" and I think that Gavin is using the interpretation that she has precluded him from all consideration as a romantic prospect. In this interpretation there is not actually an expectation of sex. He may be feeling insulted that she is saying he is not good enough for her so it isnt worth trying.
This is how I experience the friendzone. At age 26 i've never been on a date (far from sex) because no-one ever thinks of me that way, i'm just a friend.
I don't get why others think he's saying it like he expects to get laid just for being nice :|
Also Anon.. *hug* ;w;
@Narkota16: I don't get why, either. Instead of debating, I'm just spending time reading this awesome web comic! I really like where it's going, and am really excited for new pages. It's become a habit to check by, occasionally, even on days where they aren't uploaded. XD
I guess I just really have a lot of negative feelings towards the term "friendzone" and his disappointment that it wasn't a date despite going into it knowing that it wasn't just really irked me.
Doesn't help that I am generally mistrustful of guys when it comes to anything romantic, sexual, or just relating to them interacting with women.
Don't worry, I like Gavin, he's probably my favourite character.
Though like most people here, I just dislike the term "Friendzoned" for the most common interpretation I've ran into, which is unfortunately is the: "I've put so much effort into being nice to this chick and she still won't let me f*ck her! What a slut!"
I'm going to let it slide because we've all used a different meaning of a word or phrase than what the majority of peoples' interpretation of it.
A recent example that caught some people I know off guard when talking to them is this:-
What I mean when I say it: the union of two people.
What most of the world mean when they say it: the union of a man and a woman.
Y'know, your (and many other females I've met) line of reasoning is the reason I'm so mistrustful of girls. I've had so much sexist shit slung at me from them about guys that its really caused me to be pretty edgy around them. The emotional and psychological toll that that line of thought ( that ALL men think with their dicks) has caused great distress in me and many others like me. Talk about sexist. "A guy has an interest in a girl?!?! He just wants the sex!!" Just shoot a person off because of their genitals. You have some growing up to do. I wish you luck in that.
@Average Trans* Male:
I'm aware that I'm sexist and am slowly working on it and I am sorry that I posted an initial knee-jerk reaction without explaining it and thus hurt some feelings.
It's not that I think guys are all bad, but they are kinda encouraged to be. When the world tells them every day that they NEED to be hyper masculine and thinking with their dicks and that anything unmasculine is an attack on them, it tends to leave scars.
So yes, I do still gotta grow up and get over this, but that doesn't mean I don't have reason to be cautious as guys ARE the ones most likely to hurt me.
In non-politics, something I never made clear, I'm still very much interested in the character Gavin and his role in the story. I don't think he's a BAD GUY, but just a guy who's very much a guy and looking for some love of his own. He does have some issues (some that make me not like him as a person, but also make him interesting as a flawed character), but he's a young and has had his world flipped a bit on his head, so yeah.
Funny, as a guy I just assumed that friendship comes before any other type of relationship. Being put in the friendzone is okay because it is the first ring on the ladder. And if you stay there, that's okay too.
@Pacce: Pretty sure he's just setting up the boundaries for it so he doesn't so something stupid like try to kiss her and ruin things. If he was as you mention, I doubt he'd be as chatty and nice as he is the next few chapters.
Oh please, not that friendzone crap again. Can't straight guys ever just hang out with a girl/woman without immediately classifying it? If I were Ana that remark would have just moved him into the 'definitely never getting out of the friend zone on principle' zone.
This is a completely fine way to go about this ^_^ However, seeing the title of the comic, isn't this the kind of thing a demisexual person would do as well? (a)
Friendzone, population you bro